War Pass

[sdi1958]

This is a bit fishy, why is Zito dead set on running War Pass in an allowance race. Now the race he was suppose to run in doesn't fill. What makes him think anyone would want to run their overmatched horses in such a race. Plus, was does it prove to him or anyone else if wins such a race by a city block. Horses that win KY Derby's don't duck anyone before hand. I know Zito has forgotten more than I'll ever learn about training horses. But, it appears to me he doesn't want War Pass to run against anything that would possibly force him to go head and head. I guess he take the Arazi path and have (1) prep and crap out at the 1/4 pole. Good luck to all the people on the War Pass bandwagon, I hope you don't get scalped to bad.

[Jerfi]

My first reaction was about the same as yours... why? Is the horse hurt?
Is there some other reason that is not obvious?

I then started thinking that maybe he wants a workout, but under competition standards ... but that would be just as easily staged with all the horses he has and private training tracks that are available.

My next thought was that the horse is perhaps 'crowd shy,' and he wants to run the horse where there will be a lot of noise.

I'm sure there are a host of other reasons ... none of which I could probably guess!

One thing is for sure .... SOMETHING is up!

[danstep43]

the one I feel you can definitely eliminate is crowd noise....Zito's peeps walked him through the crowds and right by me at TOGA and WP was more than fine, he seemed interested in looking at everybody...plus at monmouth, I am not sure the setup, Scottsdad can answer that one, he didn't appear to have any issues...I am wondering the other, maybe he just wanted an "Easy" spot for him to comeback to

[deltasports]

WAR PASS HAS NOT BEEN OUT IN 120 DAYS GOING INTO THIS RACE ON SUN.

#1 UPSCALE EXPERIENCED TRAINERS IN THE YESTERYEAR ALMOST EVERY TIME WHEN THEY BRING BACK A TOP PROSPECT,THEY ALWAYS FIND A PREP RACE & IF THEY CANT THE RACING SECRETARY WILL WRITE AN EXEBITION RACE WITH OR WITHOUT PARI MUTUEL BETTING..NICK & I GO BACK A LONG WAY & ARE CLOSE FRIENDS.HE IS DOING THE RIGHT THING...WE HAVE A SAYING ON THE RACE TRACK: (WE THE OLD TIMERS FROM THE RACES) WHEN COMING AWAY FROM THE RAIL AFTER WATCHING OUR HORSE WORK IN THE MORNING , WE WILL HEAR FROM A BUNCH OF WANNABEES ON HOW TO TRAIN OUR HORSE ON OUR WAY BACK TO OUR BARN...hh)

[sdi1958]

This wannabee wants to know if War Pass is going to run against anything of quality the 1st time back?

[sdi1958]

Mr Jerfi is right as usual. they found 4-5 little piglets to run against him in a 1m ALW. on Sunday. It looks like he could run "Backwards" and win this race. So I guess I'll buy myself a couple of beers, stand by the rail, and hope he doesn't stub his hoof.bc(

[Jerfi]

You could also bet $50,000 to show... :) And collect a cool $2500 .... :)

And you can safely bet that someone WILL ..... if they even allow show betting....

[sdi1958]

The only way I would bet $50,000 on any race is if I won the GA. lottery Friday night - $270 Million. With my luck, they would refund all bets after (1) horse scratched and all show bets would be cancelled.
By the way, there were some "Bridge Jumpers" last Friday @ AQU. after the 2nd race. I was fortunate to nail the "SHow" pool in that race.ds:

[Jerfi]

Yessir, every few weeks there is a show pool that gets blown out of the water ... the trick, of course, is to know WHICH ONE it's going to be! :)

[danstep43]

that race at the Big A also knocked out about 750 people from the SHOWVIVOR contest....almost 1/2 of the people that were still in at the time

[mister zesterhouse]

this nonsense seems to come up every year around this time. zito can bring war pass back at penn national if he wants. his goal is to be primed for the derby, the world series; this is spring training.

[Jerfi]

He could also put him in a $2500 claimer at Portland.... but probably won't next out.

Why is it nonsense to speculate?

This is what a forum is for ... to ask questions, offer opinions... and hopefully attract new readers who would like to become involved, but don't want their thoughts to be ridiculed.

[scottsdad]

Zito Knows Exactly What He Is Doing. I Guarantee That They Are Not Running War Pass In The Gp Aloowance Race For A Pay Check----thats The Last Thing On There Mind Right Now.there Schedule For War Pass Is A Natural Progression For Him To Peak In The First Sunday Of May.he Hasnt Raced Since The Breeders Cup.he Didnt Even Go Into Training Until The Middle Of January.he Has 5 Published Works Since Then.there Schedule After This Is The Tmpa Bay Derby And Then The Wood Memorial.it Sounds Like A Plan To Me.i Wouldnt Say This Is Spring Training.they Want This Colt To Be Tight And Ready To Rumble When The Time Is Right.

[sdi1958]

If he peaks the 1st Sunday in May, he'll be the only one running. CD is closed the day after the Derby.bf.

[mister zesterhouse]

He could also put him in a $2500 claimer at Portland.... but probably won't next out.

Why is it nonsense to speculate?

This is what a forum is for ... to ask questions, offer opinions... and hopefully attract new readers who would like to become involved, but don't want their thoughts to be ridiculed.

it's painful to go over these same points time and time again. and it is nonsense to insinuate that because war pass is coming off consecutive g1 wins or is 2 year old champ or whatever that he *must* be directly entered into the foy or risen star or whatever graded prep is on the calendar.

his game plan is very straightforward and has been laid out in numerous articles. sdi is not a new reader and seems to have a thicker skin on here than most.

jerfi, this is my opinion and this is a forum and the preakness should be moved back a week.

and i like the parallel that this is spring training: alw prep to tampa derby (regular season) to wood (playoffs) to derby (ws). certain symmetries w/racing and baseball fascinating.

[Jerfi]

it's painful to go over these same points time and time again. and it is nonsense to insinuate that because war pass is coming off consecutive g1 wins or is 2 year old champ or whatever that he *must* be directly entered into the foy or risen star or whatever graded prep is on the calendar.

his game plan is very straightforward and has been laid out in numerous articles. sdi is not a new reader and seems to have a thicker skin on here than most.

jerfi, this is my opinion and this is a forum and the preakness should be moved back a week.

and i like the parallel that this is spring training: alw prep to tampa derby (regular season) to wood (playoffs) to derby (ws). certain symmetries w/racing and baseball fascinating.


Hi, again!

sdi might not be a new reader, and might be thick skinned. But there are many others who are new, and who may or may not be thick skinned! :)

Your analogy to spring training and baseball is certainly valid, to which I will readily agree.

Moving the Preakness .... I much prefer to see it stay as is. MOST horses do run back within 2 weeks .... in fact, one of the parameters I (and many others) use is days since last race. I will fairly regularly eliminate those who are OVER 14 days since last outing.

If we were going to switch anything, I would like to see the BELMONT STAKES backed up a week, to make it 2 weeks after the PREAKNESS!

[scottsdad]

Sdi--thanks For The Correction---of Course The First SATURDAY In May---that Was Pretty Funny--cd Closed.

[Mister Stigg]

Anybody gonna put $5 to show on the other horses running vs War Pass Sunday? Who's going to win the Fountain of Youth?

[scottsdad]

Mister Z---it Seems To The Wise Men That You Have The Same Problem Your Other Mister Friend Had---maybe It Is Your Delivery--when You Post Something Like You Are An Expert And Everybody Elses Thoughts Are Just Meaningless Opinions---you Open Yourself Up To These Kind Of Responses.

[djunior]

Anybody gonna put $5 to show on the other horses running vs War Pass Sunday? Who's going to win the Fountain of Youth?

I think the FOY is the toughest of the preps so far. My play tomorrow with a bankroll of $200 will be a $16 exacta box; 3-8-10 and 50wp on the 8. Anak Nakal has not missed a beat on the workout tab, and should be ready to roll.

[mister zesterhouse]

Mister Z---it Seems To The Wise Men That You Have The Same Problem Your Other Mister Friend Had---maybe It Is Your Delivery--when You Post Something Like You Are An Expert And Everybody Elses Thoughts Are Just Meaningless Opinions---you Open Yourself Up To These Kind Of Responses.


it's certainly not a problem for me but thanks for the critique anyway. maybe i should capitalize the first letter of each and every word to be more effective. i commend you on the consistency and patience you display with this most unusual writing style. tu?

move the belmont forward a week, jerfi? you're sadistic man. barbaro's ashes were just spread at CD last week i think. charismatic just recently broke down in the belmont. what ever happened to ken?

[Jerfi]

[/quote]

move the belmont forward a week, jerfi? you're sadistic man. barbaro's ashes were just spread at CD last week i think. charismatic just recently broke down in the belmont. what ever happened to ken?[/quote]


Sadistic? interesting choice of words, don't you think?

Horses are always breaking down. The number of days between the Preakness and the Belmont had absolutely NOTHING to do with Barbaro or Charismatic.

What should happen? Pass a law that any horse that breaks down adds another day between races? Keep that up for a year, and we would have a race about every 5 years, perhaps.

We are supposedly trying to improve the breed, not pander to the vagaries of racing that occasionally includes mishaps.

Or, perhaps you are in favor of horses not running but once a month, or two months or whatever frequency YOU decide?

It seems to me that the owners and trainers are the sadistic folks, if anyone is. They are the bad guys who run their horses every couple of weeks..... BALONEY.

A horse is personal property, and if the owner wants to run him every single day and twice on Saturday, it's his (or her) business. Certainly not yours nor mine.

[Jerfi]

move the belmont forward a week, jerfi? you're sadistic man. barbaro's ashes were just spread at CD last week i think. charismatic just recently broke down in the belmont. what ever happened to ken?


Sadistic? interesting choice of words, don't you think?

Horses are always breaking down. The number of days between the Preakness and the Belmont had absolutely NOTHING to do with Barbaro or Charismatic.

What should happen? Pass a law that any horse that breaks down adds another day between races? Keep that up for a year, and we would have a race about every 5 years, perhaps.

We are supposedly trying to improve the breed, not pander to the vagaries of racing that occasionally includes mishaps.

Or, perhaps you are in favor of horses not running but once a month, or two months or whatever frequency YOU decide?

It seems to me that the owners and trainers are the sadistic folks, if anyone is. They are the bad guys who run their horses every couple of weeks..... BALONEY.

A horse is personal property, and if the owner wants to run him every single day and twice on Saturday, it's his (or her) business. Certainly not yours nor mine.

[mister zesterhouse]

Sadistic? interesting choice of words, don't you think?

Horses are always breaking down. The number of days between the Preakness and the Belmont had absolutely NOTHING to do with Barbaro or Charismatic.

What should happen? Pass a law that any horse that breaks down adds another day between races? Keep that up for a year, and we would have a race about every 5 years, perhaps.

We are supposedly trying to improve the breed, not pander to the vagaries of racing that occasionally includes mishaps.

Or, perhaps you are in favor of horses not running but once a month, or two months or whatever frequency YOU decide?

It seems to me that the owners and trainers are the sadistic folks, if anyone is. They are the bad guys who run their horses every couple of weeks..... BALONEY.

A horse is personal property, and if the owner wants to run him every single day and twice on Saturday, it's his (or her) business. Certainly not yours nor mine.

if there were only one race every five years, how about the build-up to that super race huh!? how many horses would be entered? thousands i would imagine. tough stuff for a handicapper.

please stop pretending that the two week gap between the derby and the preakness is comparable to the two week gap between, for example, the 6 year old gelding sprinter cody autrey claims from buff bradley or jinks fires and steps up. you might want to keep that part of the argument to yourself or to the neophyte.

Races at 1 1/4 to 1 3/16 to 1 1/2 (against 19 foes in the Derby and anywhere from 10 or more in the Preakness) for a still developing 3 year old in a matter of 5 weeks is similar to nothing in this peculiar sport.

improving the breed? what do you mean by this exactly? bone mass density
is lesser, muscle mass is greater, today.

*according to delta, grand slam covered 371 mares in a year*: improving the breed or improving the bottom line?

and you want to move the belmont up a week while jerks like jerry jesus bailey are willing to sacrifice their mount--no attempt whatsoever to win the horse race--in order to burn-up smarty jones or the next smarty jones. i hope you are joking and the sarcasm there went undetected.

as for the contention that proper rest had nothing to do with the death of barbaro and the career-ending injury of the triple crown seeking charismatic, that is a matter of conjecture. still, is it more or less probable that with an extra week of rest barbaro would have had a safe journey in the preakness and, incidentally, a historic, thrilling stretch battle with bernardini?

[Jerfi]

Are you advocating changing the entire structure of racing?

Developing 3 yr olds shouldn't compete?

Does that mean we cut out pee-wee football, baseball, soccer, gymnastics, and basketball for kids, and not allow participation in athletics till college age?

Wait till all horses are 5 or 6, then race them?

That's not going to happen.

Racing is not going to change, to suit an argument that has been going on since time unremembered, unless and until there is sufficient agreement among owners, trainers, track officials, and yes, even the bettors and general public, to make some alterations.

That will not be happening this week, nor this Triple Crown series.

I will predict that at least 5 of the nearly 500 horses that are KY Derby eligible will be hurt during the next 2 months.

I will also predict that neither of the three races will be canceled, no matter how many are injured, hurt, break down, or just plain don't want to play any more.

Speculation as to whether a week or more rest would make a difference cannot be supported by statistics, anywhere, simply because there is no correlation between frequency and track accidents and injuries.

For every horse that breaks down with less than 2 weeks racing, there will be that many more that break down between 3 and 6 weeks, and 6 and 12 weeks and 6 months to a year, and over a year. Where is the line to be drawn???

[mister zesterhouse]

Are you advocating changing the entire structure of racing?

Developing 3 yr olds shouldn't compete?

Does that mean we cut out pee-wee football, baseball, soccer, gymnastics, and basketball for kids, and not allow participation in athletics till college age?

Wait till all horses are 5 or 6, then race them?

That's not going to happen.

Racing is not going to change, to suit an argument that has been going on since time unremembered, unless and until there is sufficient agreement among owners, trainers, track officials, and yes, even the bettors and general public, to make some alterations.

That will not be happening this week, nor this Triple Crown series.

I will predict that at least 5 of the nearly 500 horses that are KY Derby eligible will be hurt during the next 2 months.

I will also predict that neither of the three races will be canceled, no matter how many are injured, hurt, break down, or just plain don't want to play any more.

Speculation as to whether a week or more rest would make a difference cannot be supported by statistics, anywhere, simply because there is no correlation between frequency and track accidents and injuries.

For every horse that breaks down with less than 2 weeks racing, there will be that many more that break down between 3 and 6 weeks, and 6 and 12 weeks and 6 months to a year, and over a year. Where is the line to be drawn???

does moving the preakness back a week change the entire structure of racing? or does it upset myopic traditionalists?

not sure exactly how you inferred that i suggest the abolition of 3 year old racing? either explain, sir, or, at the very least, refrain from misrepresenting my position, if you want to be taken seriously. good day and good racing luck.

[Jerfi]

First of all, I've not misrepresented your position. You are the one saying 3 yr olds are developing and wanting to change racing dates.

Second, it's immaterial whether folks take me seriously, or not. You make your comments, I'll make mine. I'm quite sure there are folks who think you are right, some who think you are wrong, and some who couldn't care less.

I write what I think ... and folks have the right, and the option, to criticise, agree, or ignore (which is what I suspect happens, most of the time).

[mister zesterhouse]

First of all, I've not misrepresented your position. You are the one saying 3 yr olds are developing and wanting to change racing dates.

Second, it's immaterial whether folks take me seriously, or not. You make your comments, I'll make mine. I'm quite sure there are folks who think you are right, some who think you are wrong, and some who couldn't care less.

I write what I think ... and folks have the right, and the option, to criticise, agree, or ignore (which is what I suspect happens, most of the time).


come on, you've misrepresented my position--reread your posts. and, yes, *some* 3 yr olds are still developing and i want to change *a* date. again,
*a date*. again, a date. one date. move one race back a week. again, a week back, the preakness, a week back. got it? one week, one race.

again, is it more or less probable that an extra week of rest and preparation after the derby could prevent catastrophic injury of the next barbaro? http://youtube.com/watch?v=T6PacUirYuQ

to add a little more insult to catastrophic injury, churchill exploited the ashes ceremony for all it was worth. tro(

at this point in racing, these are our gladiator games. not at the level of the unconscionable "sport" of dog fighting, of course, but grotesque nonetheless.

[djunior]

War Pass, Next Stop Tampa Bay Derby!!!

[mister zesterhouse]

la penta's other contender: cool coal man. zito more well-armed than pletcher was last year.

[danstep43]

I was more impressed with B. Taggs horse only making his 2nd lifetime start....showed alot of mettle and professionalism coming back on after Cool Coal cleared him.......

[sdi1958]

Very impressive. I know it was against knowbody's, but he appeared to do it very professionally. It will be interesting to see who shows up in Tampa. If all goes well from here to the Derby. The only way War Pass isn't leading turning for home is because he didn't make the race. I don't know that there's a trainer out there that would even attempt to run a rabbit against him. It appears he has all the speed in the world.

[Mister Stigg]

I was more impressed with B. Taggs horse only making his 2nd lifetime start....showed alot of mettle and professionalism coming back on after Cool Coal cleared him.......

yeah, it was the weirdest thing I've seen since last year's preakness, when Street Sense shot past Curlin and the rest like a rocket and then hung,getting nipped, except this time E.F. didn't get to C.C.M. Not sure if EF was displaying alot of grit, or if CCM started goofing off. I was impressed with the way CCM drew clear at the head of the lane, but also EF's rerally. I guess we'll find out in the Florida Derby what it all means. Neverthe less I agree with danstep. That's a pretty nice effort for a horse making his 2nd lifetime start.

[danstep43]

I also reminded me, prob. because E.F. is B. Taggs horse, when Empire Maker beat Funny Cide in the Wood and watched Cide come back on Maker also........

[Mister Stigg]

la penta's other contender: cool coal man. zito more well-armed than pletcher was last year.

I wanted to post this under a Synthetic Track thread, but I didn't have time to search all threads, so here goes. This is a quote from Zito that I found humorous:

Another thing he likely will try to avoid is running in Derby prep races on synthetic surfaces.

"I like natural surfaces, grass and dirt, not the rubber from your attic," he said
rofl