Owner intent

[ken]

I have heard all about "trainer intent".
I would like to heear from people about "owner intent" in various races:
1) Claiming- Are they just giving up hope?
2) MD, handicaps, stakes- seems they want stakes win for breeding of females, but will accept W/P/S for males for stakes to show good runs in highest class stakes.
3) Allowances, starter races- seem to be transitional races, horses expected to move up or down, except for Alw always-also-rans (waiting for them to mature?)
4) State-bred races- FC's mainstay prior to winning the Derby; what are the future plans?
___________
Which races can I be sure the owners are desperate to win and which they just want a good run? Trainers seem to make Stakes excuses for OTM but not for ITM, pedigreequery.com lists W/P/S for stakes.
Are most owners more involved with certain races and/or horses? Do they leave the race placement in Cl's totaly up to the trainer? If a breeder keeps ownership and races the horse does the race selection change? In some races for younger or improving horse are the jockeys told specifically not to waste all the horse's energy, or maybe they keep gate jockeys away from certain horses so they can stretch the horse out later?
THANK YOU!

[ken]

"Godolphin pre-enters Discreet Cat in Classic as 'insurance'


Godolphin Racing pre-entered Discreet Cat in the Breeders' Cup Classic (G1) but still plans to withdraw the undefeated colt unless a problem should arise with expected Classic favorite Bernardini over the next nine days.

Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid al Maktoum owns Bernardini and operates Godolphin with his family.

"We're basically buying ourselves nine days," said Rick Mettee, the New York-based assistant to Godolphin trainer Saeed bin Suroor. "It's insurance in case something should happen between now and when they take entries [on November 1].

"As long as Bernardini is running, we're still planning on running Discreet Cat in the Cigar Mile [Handicap (G1) on November 25 at Aqueduct.]"

[crazybear]

You know the one thing that always flashes thru my mind was when D Wayne seemed to start his decline,he lost a lot of my respect when i felt like he really pressured the owner to start a horse in the DerbY or BC so as to keep his streak intact with the horse not having a chance at all.
If it werent for the owners we wouldnt have a sport like this but my one beef is when the owners lead us on if a horse is going to be retired or "will run the next year" just some of my passing thougt's when i 1st read the thread start lines

[ken]

I agree there must be some of that type of game to get a higher price, but in fairness owners do always have to risk deadly injury to the horse the next workout or race and lose the value and the year or 2 planning.

[madmartha]

Darn! read start lines[/quote]

[madmartha]

RE: Crazybear referring to a particular trainer in question in the above

If I had a horse that wasn't ready - I would appreciate it if the trainer would take more time. I am shocked by the comment you made in reference to D. Wayne Lukas pressuring an owner or two.

The horse's welfare always comes first with me. If I were to be stuck with a "late-maturing" type, so be it. At least, the precious creature would be given a decent chance. hh)

[crazybear]

Not sure MM if you read it right but im all for the horses not being injured or raced if there is a chance of not being ready but it was documented that the owner did not really want to run his horse but D Wayne talked him into running so as to keep his streak alive.That and all the horses that were breaking down under D-Wayne care back then is when he lost a lot of his clients.He has changed a lot IMHO and thats why he is starting to get a lot of owners back with him.
Yeah Ken the owners have a huge stake in just the daily operations so they do have to very careful i know i would ,my gripe was that they are real sure the will be running them when some have known all along that they were'nt going to run them.

[ken]

As an wner thinking about a big trainer, making sure the assistant trainer at your horse's home track must be imortant too!
There Lukas, etc. big trainers do not have time to "train" a horse. Some of them must have hundreds of horses (+ claiming horse race placement), local records, employees/vets/farriers/drivers/medications as well as owners, jockeys, agents, track officials that their assistants deal with; while the big owner deals with finances, breeding farms, layup farms, auctions, shippers, IRS, investments as a part owner, etc. It is a wonder the big trainers have time left over to arrange stiffing their $5,000.00 claimer 3 times in a row in order to cash a 2-1 bet the 4th time! LOL!!

[crazybear]

Yeah Ken you hit the nail on the head about Assistants i know i for one have seen a TR thats new to me and they are hitting a decent rate then somewhere down the road i find out that they were assistans for some one else.A while back was'nt there a pretty big owner/owners that asked a Assistant to take over and leave a Tr.?? not sure my memory loses me about this.

[madmartha]

RE: Crazybear

Hi again, it's me :confused: confused "madmartha".
I didn't mean to sound as if I were on your
case about D. Wayne Luckas handling of an
owner's horses. I'm sorry if it looked that
way.

I do remember of a break between the Padua
Stables and their former trainer, Lukas, a few
years back and wonder if Mr. Sanish (sp) is
the one you are referring to ? If so, I'm
beginning to "get the picture". I've always
respected that particular owner and his
stable. He's got some good stock that I've
been following the bloodlines on. I think he
still has a horse, "You" (or something like that
with some Roberto blood that's quite something
to look for in turf races. Don't believe speed
types are of essense in the turf routes. I think
Lukas is of a quarter-horse background and pro-
bably more geared to front-running style.
Another stallion Padua Stables breeds with a
loaded bloodline is, Exchange Rate. I do re-
member Lukas being the trainer of that one.
Oh well. I don't mean to be playing detective here
on your case.

I guess, I'm still new at this game and it's easy
for me to get confused and forget stuff. At first,
I was a rabid D.Wayne Lukas fan during the 90's
Lukas, Baffert and Zito thing. Then, I got tired
of the media always focusing on these three
trainers. Lukas seemed to have the horses body
types I liked. Remembered making money off a
bet I made on Charismatic that he trained. Re-
membered Baffert seemed to have the funnier-
looking type of horses like Indian Charley. But
the one I haven't tired of is Zito. He seems to
be the one that media overlooks. But it seems
to me that Zito has more patience with the
horses. (I could be wrong here). It's just that
I don't hear of as many horses becoming injured
under his care.

[ken]

Yeah Ken you hit the nail on the head about Assistants i know i for one have seen a TR thats new to me and they are hitting a decent rate then somewhere down the road i find out that they were assistans for some one else.A while back was'nt there a pretty big owner/owners that asked a Assistant to take over and leave a Tr.?? not sure my memory loses me about this.
I think there has been a few owners that at leave went with the asst when they began on their own.
I'll bet most were assts prior.

[crazybear]

Lol MM i have some trouble at times saying what i mean wrong .
Do the tr's have to have worked for a tr,like a journyman??

[madmartha]

When Ken McPeek was going thru a "burn-out" phase,
his assistant, Helen Pitts took over and now she's on
her own. Now, Ken's back with success again.

One of the top trainers today, Todd Pletcher, use to
be D.Wayne Lukas's assistant.

Guess we've hit upon a new "angle", here, huh? ;)

[crazybear]

I just usally know the "main name tr" Seems like the only time i learn who the asst's are is when the "Name Tr" gets suspended .It's usally the un-named that do all the hard work for not much recogniton.Like you said maybe a new angle

[ken]

Equibase track leaders shows Pletcher 15 for 82 (18%) at Belmont, and at Gulfstream 60 for 200 (30%). I assume an asst at each track.

[madmartha]

Yeah, we might be on to something here about some of the
assistants. I've never thought that it could be humanely
possible for just "one" trainer to actually be doing all that
hard work. Even gotta wonder about Scott Lake. He's
got horses all over the place.

Sometimes I've read from DRF's, Simulcast Weekly about
trainer's giving some of their assistants credit. That's how
I discovered George Weaver, who I believe worked for
D.Wayne Lukas. (Correct me, I'm wrong, tho). Anyway,
I started playing Weaver's horses, figuring he was taught
well by his former boss.

Another thing. Just because an assistant goes off on his
own may not neccessarily mean that a "dispute" may
had been going on, either, I suppose. They probably just
feel more confident to work with a smaller number of
horses on their own - than to just be a "mechanical-arm"
of some big name trainer.

I've been keeping my eye open for Helen Pitts for part of
the suspected reason from the preceding paragraph. How-
ever, in her case, Ken McPeek actually had confidence in
her ability to take over for him when he wanted a break
from training for a while. He's another one I like and is
back doing well.

[deltasports]

[QUOTE=madmartha]RE: Crazybear

Hi again, it's me :confused: confused "madmartha".
I didn't mean to sound as if I were on your
case about D. Wayne Luckas handling of an
owner's horses. I'm sorry if it looked that
way.

I do remember of a break between the Padua
Stables and their former trainer, Lukas, a few
years back and wonder if Mr. Sanish (sp) is
the one you are referring to ? If so, I'm
beginning to "get the picture". I've always
respected that particular owner and his
stable. He's got some good stock that I've
been following the bloodlines on. I think he
still has a horse, "You" (or something like that
with some Roberto blood that's quite something
to look for in turf races. Don't believe speed
types are of essense in the turf routes. I think
Lukas is of a quarter-horse background and pro-
bably more geared to front-running style.
Another stallion Padua Stables breeds with a
loaded bloodline is, Exchange Rate. I do re-
member Lukas being the trainer of that one.
Oh well. I don't mean to be playing detective here
on your case.

================================================== ====
HIS NAME IS "SATISH SANAN not sanish>>>he does'st own THE FILLY "YOU"
ED GANN OWNES HER AND BOBBY FRANKEL TRAINED HER..AS FOR SATISH>>>HE IS A CLOSE FRIEND OF MINE & I WILL INFORM HIM THAT A GIRL SAID HE OWNED "YOU" AND CALLED HIM MR SANISH..LOLrofl

[madmartha]

RE: deltasports

OK, I'll do my homework first - before I speak out. bh)