Tampa Handle

[Chuck]

Did anyone notice today's handle at Tampa? I think it was around 3.2 mil......not too long ago in this meet on a Tuesday there would have been another mil added on. Without attacking track management or the racing office, I wonder if we could have an intelligent exchange on why these numbers might be tanking and what constructively can be suggested to improve them. Certainly when race after race are beaten races, especially bottom level beaten claimers, declines can be expected....but 20% or more.

[LongshotLarry]

Chuck, you hit the nail on the head, beaten claimers! And may I also add, 7500 maiden claiming races that attract horses that couldn't win for 25 hundred!! I posted a couple of weeks ago about the garbage races that they are writing at Tampa, and I think, now, it actually has gotten worse! I know that they didn't have any turf races today, and that certainly hurt the handle, but lets wise up TBD, give the bettors something to bet on!! And let me reiterate to the racing secretary, what happened to 5 and 5 1/2 furlong races on the dirt??? I have been coming here since the 70's when TBD had it tough, the handle was maybe 10% of the current one!! We all applaud your new and improved methods of drug testing and enforcement, but its time to give back some of the riches made through simulcasting. Again, if you raise purses, you will put a better product on the racetrack which in turn, will increase your handle! Or do you want to remain a minor league track?, that is the question I pose to you!

LL

[Steve]

Very astute observation Chuck. Track management has to take notice with the obvious and painful depth of decline on a day that should capture the entire country.
Certainly, as LongshotLarry pointed out, the recent rain and consequently the loss of Turf cannot answer or explain the loss.
The truth is the type of races that are being written. I hear it all the time from everyone. The single most private feedback I receive is the ever present- what happened to Tampa?
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Personally, I have been treated well at Tampa and late last year I enjoyed an outing with the new racing secretary and found him to be pleasant. Moreover, I have been a big winner at the Track, but perhaps it’s due to patterns I have learned over the years and people that I know who point out different angles. I just can’t complain as I have little reason myself. BUT….
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it doesn’t take much ed-you-kation to observe the observable. Something is bad wrong and needs immediate attention. If, on a day that should surpass any previous Tuesday, the handle goes down one could logically conclude that the worse is yet to come. I certainly hope that I am out to lunch with this doom day post, but as a business man I don’t think so and I would have heads rolling somewhere now as opposed to later if I was King of the World.

In my years coming and betting at Tampa this year has the most negative chatter hands down. Forums will serve to the front what people are saying to themselves and behind closed doors already. Hopefully management is watching and strategizing as we ponder these complex issues amongst our fellow handicappers.

Steve
TW
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[ziadierulestampa]

Hey Chuck,
You card one Rat Race after another,and the sharp bettor up in New York,
who creates those big handles on Tuesday,is simply going to say,"No Mas"!
You have the worst Track Management in the history of racetracks at TBD.
The track runs on its own,and will continue to do so as long as these Mental Midgets are in charge.

[Steve]

I hope not to do this in the future, but this post is a perfect example of the difference some of you have asked me about in emails.

ZadierulesTampa obviously has a strong opinion about this issue. He is not expressing this opinion against any clear particular person but rather towards an organization- or management if you will. Here-in lies one example regarding the difference between a personal attack and forum expression.

Make Sense?

Steve
TW

[McSchell_Racing_Inc]

There are a lot of horses that would rather go 5-5 1/2 then 3/4. I dont understand why they dont write them anymore.I wish they would!

[Chuck]

I think I know quite a bit but am smart enough to know there is much more I don't know. I like the idea of varying the length of the races.....works for smaller tracks like Mountaineer. And, wow, those 7500 NW of 2 life races sure get tiring. What I really don't know is about the actual "structural" side of the turf. Tampa had an absolute deluge last Friday. For those of you not from Tampa..I can't even tell you what it was like. Driving up from the shore, I thought the world was ending! Anyway, 18 inches of rain in a few hours should tell the whole story. My question about the turf is...how long does it actually take to be safe to run on? Four days later.....is it still like a bog, being out on it? I think a lot of members might like to hear about the actual turf itself. I know on Friday during the rain..the track was literally a pool. It was under water and the picnic tables in the clubhouse were nearly under water. Saturday, it was barely wet! To me, amazing. How about that turf?

[Rudy]

I too agree that Tampa needs to bring back the short sprints...When the conditioning book came out last year that was the first thing many people noticed was missing...Actually its something a lot of us look forward to. ...Another factor regarding the handle is weather in the Northeast.I have to beleive when they have a mild winter it affects TBD greatly. I dont recall if Aqueducts cancelled any days this year. Tampa's overall handle has been up.As a regular at the downs since the Longshotlarry days Tampa has managed to improve the quality,field size,and handle/purses I have to think Mr. Berube will make the appropriate changes, if he feels the ship is going to sink.I look forward to see next weeks handle.Please keep us posted Mr.BeanCounter......thanks Rudy

[Steve]

Heres an article concerning handle:


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000082&sid=agd6AJsdcHXU&refer=canada

Quote from article

``Without slots, horse racing can't succeed,'' says John Finamore, 48, senior vice president of regional operations for Wyomissing, Pennsylvania-based Penn National Gaming Inc., which runs Charles Town and 16 other racetracks and casinos in 12 states and Ontario, Canada.

[thebrotherinlaws]

I too agree that Tampa needs to bring back the short sprints...When the conditioning book came out last year that was the first thing many people noticed was missing...Actually its something a lot of us look forward to. ...Another factor regarding the handle is weather in the Northeast.I have to beleive when they have a mild winter it affects TBD greatly. I dont recall if Aqueducts cancelled any days this year. Tampa's overall handle has been up.As a regular at the downs since the Longshotlarry days Tampa has managed to improve the quality,field size,and handle/purses I have to think Mr. Berube will make the appropriate changes, if he feels the ship is going to sink.I look forward to see next weeks handle.Please keep us posted Mr.BeanCounter......thanks Rudy
LETS MAKE IT VERY CLEAR FOR MR. STEVE,THAT NOBODY IS KNOCKING ANY
PICKS,NOBODY IS INSULTING ANYBODY,NOBODY IS USING THIS SITE FOR
ATTACK,BUT WHEN A MEMBER RESPONDS TO A POSTING,PLEASE READ IT,
BEFORE RESPONDING.THAT WAY IT KEEPS THE FORUM INTELLIGENT.
CHUCK,IN HIS ASTUTE MANNER,DIRECTLY WAS TALKING ABOUT THE TUESDAY
HANDLE AT TAMPA,AND HERE COMES THIS RUDY CHARACTER,WITH A REPLY
ABOUT MILD WINTERS IN THE NORTHEAST AND HANDLES UP FOR THE MEET.
THE FORUM IS ABOUT TUESDAY HANDLES AT TAMPA,A DAY THAT HAS SEEN
MANY HUGE HANDLES,AS TAMPA AND PHILLY ARE THE ONLY REAL TRACKS
RUNNING. THE NEW YORK OTB HANDLE ALONE,HAS BEEN HUGE FOR SEVERAL
YEARS NOW FOR TAMPA TUESDAYS,BUT IT IS DECREASING BY THE WEEK.
RUDY MY BOY,FACT IS FACT,AND THE ANSWERS ARE NOT GOING TO COME AT SATURDAY MORNING GLORYS WITH YOUR FRIEND PETER BERUBE.
BE IT AS IT MAY,THIS SUBJECT MATTER IS NOT GOING TO GET ME A PICK 6 AT SANTA ANITA TODAY,SO HOW ABOUT SOME HELP FROM RUDY AND THE
BOYS.
THANK YOU

[senortout]

I haven't studied handle there, but in the back of my mind I remember a trainer has recently been "set down" for jugging, or milkshakes, whatever. Perhaps the big money was coming in from those who knew that was occurring....

Something to think about anyhow.

Tom

[Chuck]

No.....it's not "smart" money disappearing; it's all money. You are thinking of Don Rice and the few winners he had were high prices with definitely no extra play in the pools. I have never seen a single trainer effect pool strength, even at small tracks like Penn National or CharlesTown.

[Steve]

Senortout,

Agree with Chuck there concerning trainers.

Steve
TW

[senortout]

You guys are probably right, I neglected to consider that the horses in question were not all that well bet down.

Tom

[Rudy]

to thebrotherinlaws ..To set the record straight Mr Berube and I are not friends,nor is he at the Morning Glorys each Saturday...So again before making statements about me not responding appropriately .I suggest getting your facts straight as well. Some people have nothing better to do than bash people. I'd like someone to tell us in factual #'s how many million $$ the handle has changed each Tuesday since the meet started.Instead of wasting my time with ridulous comments about management and morning glory..I beleive the overall handle is up and would be interested to know if someone can enlighten me to the stats on the handle.. Thanks

[thebrotherinlaws]

You are a very sensitive boy!
Nobody is bashing you....
The subject matter was about the decline of overall handles for the Tuesday
cards at Tampa.
All you want to talk about is Morning Glory and "Mr. Berube",which is your
perrogative to do so.Simply post something about that and then wait for your
responses.
Even now,instead of addressing the issue at hand,declining handle,you want
to look at the total handles for all Tuesdays,and tell us its up.
We know that,again,the point of this subject matter is why the declining
handle?
Nobody is bashing you,nobody is knocking your picks,or your knowledge of
racing.
By the way,is Rudy your real name or user name,as I will be very interested
to see how you fare in the Tampa Bay Downs Handicapper Contest this Sat.
The Brotherinlaws Charlie Mig

[Chuck]

The original message was from me concerning last Tuesday's ACTUAL numbers. The numbers are the fact, in and of themselves. I was simply wondering if we can attribute it ALL to the strength of the card versus, say, today's card which is much better? IF so, why put that card out on a Tuesday when the world is watching? As far as people attacking management, within this thread, I didn't see it. And I certainly NEVER have. Peter B. and many of the people at Tampa, I consider to be very hard working, intelligent people who I enjoy talking to and interacting with. If anyone thinks "management" here is slow or inefficient, I would argue it and invite them to tracks I have been very involved with in the past such as the NYRA tracks, Mountaineer, the California circuit, etc. Wow, I am new at Tampa this year but so far, it is my opinion that the upper management here should win a darn award WHEN COMPARED to other places. That being said.....the number degraded about 1 MM compared to what I might have expected on that day. No turf....well, ok, that is a small consideration. No one mentioned the two days PRIOR to this we had 16 filly races out of 21 total races carded. And they were not exactly the Genuine Risk's and Winning Colors of Tampa Downs filly population. I wonder if there is a "flow" to betting maybe no one has realized yet. Throw a couple up-hill cards at the bigger players nationwide and when Tuesday comes around, they might just stick their hands in the pockets and go play golf. Or maybe the Super Bowl destroyed our urge to gamble. I am not sure.......I just think it is an interesting thing to think about because the success of racing is DIRECTLY tied to handle. Doubt that and go play Harness!

[seahero]

2005/2006 meet ytd avg. daily comingled handle $3,571,000

vs

2004/2005 meet ytd avg. daily comingled handle $3,225,000


or an increase of $346,000 per day ...........10.7%

[Chuck]

Great...the handle is up. I think we all knew that. Why not run the first two weeks against the last two weeks. Then compare that with last year. Those numbers might be more descriptive of a trend THIS year. The question was about last TUESDAY not the year!

[Icarus]

TBD just came off a month of six day a week cards. I believe that Monday racing may have contributed to the Tuesday decline. Additionally, the weather throughout the Midwest and Northeast has allowed tracks like Philadelphia Park and Beulah to offer full cards on Tuesdays.