vet reports, medical history, & trainer comments

[gestalt]

The Daily Racing Form does miss the boat in this area, is the public entitled to know about the medical history of a horse, (insiders only), Paraneck must be overjoyed with the win at AQU Friday, nice win Sanderson, Is the medical history privileged information? Should vet comments be part of the game? Should trainer comment line be added to the form? I sure would like the form to give me a more accurate comment line, anyone out there willing to bombard the form with a letter campaign or is the pressure to great to keep the secrets.

[mop38]

Would love to keep this discussion going..........

One day I picked up the Wall Street Journal.

The article said that Citigroup stock is worth investing in.

I immediately bought a half dozen "PUTS" on that stock, anticipating a rise in the stock.

They expired worthless. I lost almost a grand.

The stock doesn't move too much because it's a big, old company now that owes me a pension (if they don't convince the gov't to take their pension plan like other companies are now doing).

Bottom line..........

Don't believe what you read in print no matter the integrity of the newspaper. They used to say..."Believe all that you see and half of what you hear"...modified after 9/11....Believe some of what you see and nothing you hear.

So, to keep this discussion lively, I say go with the gut more than the print.

It's guessing...seeing who may run well. Get your stats, but don't place too much faith in it. Triainers won't tell you more than "He's doing fine, should run well". Even when they know more, they usually want to keep it to themselves.

As with the stock market, only a privledged few get any good info.

Tips come and go, longshots will prevail. Roll the dice. Any good horse has it's day.

Good luck!

[ken]

A more accurate comment line from the horse's connections? LOL!!
Until it is required to be divuldged of course the medical history is priveledged information.
I do not need or want trainer's comments or medical history- it would only take away my edge.
Connections' comments are given prior to the biggest races only for promotional purposes, not because the bettors want to know.
In assessing value you have to assess risk, and any unknown factor is part of negative risk.
Unless 5f or longer workouts in the upper 1/2 of horses working are seen on the PP's, or unless a horse performs well in what is normally a tiring run during a race, assume that a horse is currently having lung bleeding problems that will affect its stamina if a 2nd or 3rd layoff (of 6 months) within 3 months of a layoff of 6 weeks or longer appears after the horse has been "eased", "stopped" with no or 1 work afterward, especially after the horse has been fading more in successive races. A horse suspended for 6 months due to bleeding usually needs a race or 2 to perform well, and can come back at the previous level.
Unless 5f or longer workouts in the upper 1/2 of horses working are seen on the PP's, or unless a horse performs well in what is normally a tiring run during a race, assume that a horse my still be having leg problems if laid off for 2 months or longer twice in 6 months, after having several of my "warning of leg problems" appear, unless the horse has a change to a better trainer, top jockey is riding, or it is racing at a level at least 25% below purse level prior to lay off. A horse permanently moving "its tack" to a smaller track is also a big clue. In the cases of a switch mentioned above, the horse may be 90-100% healthy again, especially if a "colt" or "filly".
__________
Again, if on national Tv you ever hear Baffert say anything less than positive about his horse, cancel you bets on it immediately as it will surely run badly. The latest I heard was Bob and John- "The track is sped up, my horse is not a front-runner and does not like dirt in his face" I immediately knew a couplreof weeks ago he could not win the current race, and no way in hell I would bet that one in the Ky Derby! He is speaking directly to his big betting buddies, whoever they are.

[ken]

One more thing: If you want to see the medical history of horses with medical problems, get the PP's and handicap any race at Mountaineer! I think their post parade song is "Cripple Creek"! I love to handicap there because I learn so much an since most of the races are for $5,000, there is not much hidden in between the lines.

[Mister Sanderson]

The Daily Racing Form does miss the boat in this area, is the public entitled to know about the medical history of a horse, (insiders only), Paraneck must be overjoyed with the win at AQU Friday, nice win Sanderson, Is the medical history privileged information? Should vet comments be part of the game? Should trainer comment line be added to the form? I sure would like the form to give me a more accurate comment line, anyone out there willing to bombard the form with a letter campaign or is the pressure to great to keep the secrets.
..I hadn't read the form, I wouldn't have known that... I still would have seen Dutrow from Pederson, but that story pushed me to a new level of confidence with him.. trainers' should have to report any significant medical procedure.. it is unfair not to have that info.

[mop38]

In the interest of keeping this important discussion going, I want to explain my analogy between trainers and (what used to be) a family.

Many similarities abound, and I'm not just shooting from the hip, I've been there...I know.

There are tiers of trainers, if you will.

The Bobby Frankels occupy the highest tier.

You had the (seemingly) immortal D. Wayne Lucas until a misshap almost killed his son, and there again, family comes into the picture.

Since then, he's ebbed substantially, but his track family lives on. Former grooms and assistants of his now dominate the upper tier of the structure.

All trainers start out as grooms, hot walkers or the like. They learn from the trainers, and in time seek their license and some go on to fame.

Then you have the newcomers who dominate the smaller end of racing, but they do it with such ease that you have to question if it's at all legit.

Will they last? ( The Scott Lake family of trainers I'm referring to).

Once a guy by the name of Oscar Barerra dominated New York racing by doing wonders with old, beat-up claimers. There was something he was using, most referred to as "Juice".

Same is now happening with the newcomers, but nobody pays attention.

There are indeed training methods that differ among trainers. Richard Dutrow seems to fall in the middle rung, but is extremely formidable. How these newcomers easily compete against each other amazes me.

Then again, the horse population is very high, and quality is severely lacking.

Old geldings become useless very fast.

The game changes rapidly, and for anyone to attempt to make a tidy sum in these wacky times, you must be ten times faster than than the best of them.

(I want to correct a previous mistake I made. In my fist discussion, I meant "Calls" rather than "Puts", referring to bets people make on stocks)

Again, Good luck!

[BIGDADDY13460]

The Daily Racing Form does miss the boat in this area, is the public entitled to know about the medical history of a horse, (insiders only), Paraneck must be overjoyed with the win at AQU Friday, nice win Sanderson, Is the medical history privileged information? Should vet comments be part of the game? Should trainer comment line be added to the form? I sure would like the form to give me a more accurate comment line, anyone out there willing to bombard the form with a letter campaign or is the pressure to great to keep the secrets.
Do you really think a trainer is going to give an honest comment on his horse. Trainers bet just like you and I. They are not going to give out information that will lower the odds on their horse

[mister zesterhouse]

There are alot of horses on the grounds during the meet and then the shippers coming from god knows where. Not sure if drf has the capability to sort and gather that much. It helps as a handicapper to be there live on track and get to know and talk to the connections. Go find Frankel and ask him if he's going to win.